2nd ever PWA Windsurf Foil Title for Phantom Foils: Q&A with Alex Udin

by CSN · Published October 14, 2019 · Updated October 16, 2019

Images by Carter PWA Media / Alex Udin / Phantom Sailing. – Windsurfing is experiencing a reborn, the new WS foils can be adapted in many cases to older equipment like legacy Formula Windsurf boards (I’m learning to foil in one) and also you can use your standard set of sails to start out and have fun no prob. Many recreational packages are being offered too by Naish , Starboard and others.

The Professional Windsurf Foil World Title was launched in 2018 and Arg Gonza Costa Hoevel took the first ever crown sailing Staboard board & foils plus Severne sails.

Many know Alex Udin from his racing Catamaran projects (Phantom F18 & Flying Phantom), his riders and equipment has won 3 F18 World Titles and also was a pioneer along Martin Fischer to develop a foiling racing small cat, the FP , that later also got a OD Series. Alex roots comes from Windsurfing (as many of us sailing & racing Cats) and in 2018 he embarked in a new racing venture, developing WS foils , boards & sails while gathering a team to race in the Professional Windsurf Association series (PWA) , which is the Top Notch Windsurfing circuit.

Already in his second year of embarking in this new project his riders took 1 (Foil) , 2 (Foil & Sail) and 4th (foil & Sail) for the 2019 season that has finished past week with the Windsurf Foil title going to Nicolas Goyard, for details go to catsailingnews.com/2019/10/pwa-windsurf-foil-2019-world-title-for-nicolas-goyard.html

Below read the QA with did with Alex on this new title for his brands/Projects:

– CSN: Another Class another Title on the official second year of the PWA
Foil series only, when did you started with the Phantom Windsurf Foil project?
Alex Udin: As you know may I am a former windsurfing addict, I used to work in R&D sail loft in Maui Hawaii back in 2001. I almost quit windsurfing 10 years ago to focus on racing catamaran and foiling catamaran, with the arrival of wind foiling 2 or 3 years ago, I had a try I very quickly felt addicted again. We starting the Phantom Windsurfing division in January 2018.

– With whom you developed the Phantom WS Foil?
AU: As we did with the Phantom catamaran campaigns we try to be surrounded by the best sailors and designers. We are working very closely with 3 riders, Thomas & Nicolas Goyard and Alex Cousin. Gonzalo Redondo and Brett Ellis are working with us on the design.

– How many versions or alternatives now available for sailors to select?
AU: We have 3 ranges of foils and foil sails. A full racing line with the IRIS R foils and SF sails, a freerace line called the IRIS X, and we are about to introduce a new IRIS Z line which is more user friendly version of sails and foils for freeride.
The front wings start from 350cm2 fgor the 40 knots challenge up to 950cm2 for course racing.

– One main characteristic of your projects is that you always look for talented local French riders, when did you approached to your current riders?
AU: We couldn’t afford the top 5 PWA riders so we decided to choose some outsiders riders very specialized into windfoiling. France is a real reservoir of talented sailors especially in windsurfing. Thomas Goyard is training for the Olympics in RSX, his brother Nicolas is a foil expert and also very competitive in slalom they both come from New Caledonia and live in France. Alexandre Cousin is great rider with incredible skills in slalom and windfoil. We are both testing the gear together and everyone is involved in the development.

– Your roots come from Windsurfing and you kept building WS sails under the SI label, now SI brand wont be used and all your products will be sold through the Phantom brand?

AU:Yes I used to make few prototype sails with Sail Innovation back in the days, Phantom International is now running both catamaran and windsurfing businesses.

–Cousing & Thomas Goyard aside using your foil also have your sails. We’ve seen some changes lately on the WS Foil sails foot, say to have a simliar DS shape a la A or F18, although windsurfers we always had the foot touching the board when speed planning, thus now having more cloth down the foot means that WS Foil stance needs less mast rake?
Alex Udin: Windfoil sails have definitely similarities with Cat sails, we went for higher aspect to improve the drag to lift ratio, smaller head to keep lower the center of effort. It is however very hard to have a sealed connection between the foot of the sails and the deck of the boards as the rake of the rig is always moving fore and aft unlike on a cat deck sweeper sail.

– Which are the main differences or aspects from a traditional Windsurf sail?
AU: A foil sail needs to be super stable without to much back hand pressure to balance the pitch of the foil. You are also not anymore gliding on the rough surface of the sea so the sail do not need to release the power while you hit the chop.
As compared to a regular sail, foil sail have a longer mast to increase the aspect ratio (better efficiency), a smaller head and a shorter boom. The area bellow the boom is larger as the sail stand more upright when you foil, the draft is really locked in the front to improve the stability.

– You’ve been sailing WS Foil too for a while, I’m learning now and it is like a new total dimension, how were your first rides and how its now with more hours foiling for you?
AU: I kind of struggle during the first hour but I really quickly managed to lift on the foil the first day.
I really love it as it is so easy to go for a sail after work, you just put the gear in your car and within 15min the gear is ready. No need trailer, a parking to store your boat and a crew…
Windfoil is great, you can sail from 6 to 25 knots, easily reach 25- 30 knots of speed and it is affordable as compared to an A class or or Moth.

– What do you say to those with windsurfing background that might have doubts on going airborne?
AU: I must say it is much easier than it looks. For an experienced windsurfer who knows how to sail with the harness and in the footstraps he will be able to foil within a day and I am sure he will get addicted very quickly.

– How do you saw Torbole Trials? I’ve seen some RSX live stream past season and with a decent breeze they kept pumping a la Mistral, it was clear WS Foil package would have been killing the RSX in those conditions. Which were the performance gaps seen at Torbole?
Alex Udin: A windfoil is killing the RSX on the race course from 5-6 knots of wind. To give you a comparison, a good windfoiler is slightly faster on a race course than a good Moth or A Class.
Pumping can help to sail higher upwind, it is a bit like when you see Kai Lenny pumping on his surf foil.

– Which is the minimum wind speed for WS Foil regattas, at least on the PWA series from past two years.

AU: I believe with the new gear you can race in fleet from 6 knots of wind.

– Which is the current price for an RSX package compared say to the new Windfoil 1 sets offered by you and other brands?
AU: An RSX package (1 board , 1 rig) is 5800 Euros ex tax.
The Ifoil One Design pack (1 board, 1 foil, 1 rig) from Starboard is 6900 Euros ex tax
Windfoil 1 is proposing a high end complet set (1 board, 1 foil with 2 sets of wings, 2 sails) for approx 9500 Euros ex tax A proper foiling gear has definitely a cost…

– How was the Windfoil project 1 born? (Windfoil 1 its a joint venture project between Starboard, Phantom and other players to present a OD board and different sails/foils from several brands)
AU: We have a close relationship with Antonio Cozolino and Aaron McIntosh who came up with this project. We did like it so help them to promote it with the help of the other brand like Neil Pryde.

-The Windfoil 1 project will keep going if not selected as Olympic, or we have that alternative covered already by Formula Foil Class?
AU:I believe Ifoil has a good chance to replace the RSX for the Olympics.
The PWA is going for Slalom courses where the riders will probably have the opportunity to chose between regular slalom board with a fin or foiling gear. That could be great for the sport as the foiling gear will progress very quickly and the sailors with realise how fast foiling is compared to a regular slalom board.
Windfoil 1 and Formula Foil class will run the up wind down wind race.

– WS Foil is much easier to learn than say A-Cats, although your FP Essentiel and other recreational cats are easy to fly too. The difference I’m seeing is that I’m learning with a PWA grade foil, and can keep same foil for say local WS Foil racing etc.
That’s a great asset for the WS Foil equipment, which seems pretty well developed by now. What is next in the long term future for the WS foil? I don’t see flaps or any other complicated setup coming , do you?
AU: My vision is that everyone wants to foil but people are looking for something affordable and “plug and play”. This is I believe why the catamaran market has shrunk a lot over the past years. There is definitely something wrong when you sell more cats for the Olympics athletes than boats for amateur and week end sailors.
I know so many cat sailors who quit for kiteboarding, windsurfing or more recently wing foiling because it is less demanding.

– Future plans for the Phantom WS equipment line?
AU: We are launching a full range of windsurfing boards dedicated for foiling.
In our plan to make foiling more affordale, we are also actively working on wing foil gear, we will launch a set of wings, board and foil.

– How is the FP Ultimate foiling cat doing?
AU: We are not giving up with the foiling catamarans , we have already delivered 5 FP Ultimate, some to former FP Elite owners. The boat is delivering outstanding performance as compared to the Elite notably up wind.
We are launching a new Flying Phantom Sport which is a more performance oriented version of the FP Essentiel. It features a deck sweeper main, a retrieving gennaker and trapeze instead of the side racks. It is more affordable than the Ultimate, the price starts from 29K € ex tax.
The FP Essentiel Evo is getting more user friendly with a furling jib and a new foil rake mechanism.

Editor note: Below the FP Ultimate and the new Essentiel Sport The FP Ultimate uses J/V latest and bigger foils compared to the original Flying Phantom. More info on the Essentiel Sport new version soon.