F18 Europeans at Canaria
Good! a 50 panel radial main sail…instead of an 8 CrossCut one? What every class wants to reduce costs!!…..NOT
Edit on comments: I asked Udin, 33 Panels for Main and 50 panel combined with a full radial jib, sorry. But indeed a big diff from crosscuts. There is a reason I started the class here with corsscut pentex mainsails in 2006, a report later on the week on that.
More info on F18 WC now public decisions on rules next week.
Meanwhile I hope the class can have smooth races on the water and outside of it…
Best of luck to Bernie Benitez organizing this 2012 Europeans.
Spain is giving us a spank on the Davis Cup Final…come on Bernie invite Rafa to sail an F18 so he can enjoy a new game. We deserve our own Silver Salad Cup once and for all, too many finals lost.
sorry martin thats not a 50 panel mainsail. Maybe the kite is tho.
The gennaker S.I. has always had at least 50 panels, against Performance 35 or 24 Ullman. See that the problem is not it? The rules is rules….
Can you read the post again?
" 33 Panels for Main and 50 panel combined with a full radial jib, sorry. But indeed a big diff from crosscuts…"
not sure that a radial sail costs mora than a cross cut one with composites. horizontal seams have to be stronger than radials ones.the shape of a not perfectly made cross cut sail could last less than the radials.
customers(fashion victims) are making the price of things.
A cross cut sail with appropriate luff panel orientation as seen in the currently disputed SI sails is proven to last as a competitive sail longer than a standard crosscut sail.
it is cheaper to produce than a radial sail due to less labour, but the cloth is slightly more expensive to buy. The net result is a long lasting sail that is also good value.
Isn't that what the F18 class is about?
Horizontal versus redial F18 sails
In 2004 a couple of sail makers were testing sail cloth like flex and maxx, I know that Performance sails and Ullman Sails where making some of these sails. The crosscut mains as SI is producing have 10 panels, 8 cross cut panels and 2 redial panels . a redial F18 mainsail such as Performance sails or Ullman makes have about 16 panels so labor cost will be not a big difrance. What makes a big impact on cost price is the cloth price, a typical horizontal Pentax cloth like flex is about 160 euro more expensive than a redial Pentax cloth on a F18 main. You also have to take specially care on the crosscut seams. To do the seams properly you need to use Q bond (ultrasound clue system) because of the high loads that are on these horizontal seams. These systems are also time consuming and costly because of the expensive clue. Producing horizontal sails in Flex or maxx is only cost effective by bigger sails.
A redial flex or max F18 mainsail will be about 15 % more expensive to produce than a redial one!
Just to give you all a real idea about costs price between horizontal cut and redial cut F18 sails.
Hi Builder. Thanks for your info, please feel free to send me any info you like whenever you want, to be published.
I Will make a report later, but in 2007 I choose for the original Racecats F18 that founded the class all full crosscut Mains/Jibs as the cost was almost 50% of the one radial offered by a reknowned local loft.
Full details later.
the flex and the PE ,to compare with the same manufacturer are at the same price or not a really big difference, i have the price list under my eyes.
and it's true that the horizontale seams have to be really well made. just look at your transition seam on a radial main.
and labour time is less a problem as now some sails are made in asia.
so be careful , only a sailmaker can make the difference in details.
You absolutely do not neet Q bond to make cross cut sails properly, you just need to have a sail loft that understand the details and knows how to do it right.
Q bond is not the only answer, just look at how many Nacra F20 sails built in Q bond have torn apart at the seams! They would be much better lasting if they used the same panel orientation as Sail Innovation. The cloth is better orientated to distribute the luff loads throughout the sail.
The SI sails have remained competitive for more than 2 seasons at high level sailing and they are less expensive than the major lofts such as Performance, Goodall and Ullman.
The quality of the SI sails is exceptional, proven over time and cost effective. So why does this class ban them?
yes , and where are they made?
ok course q bon is not necessary but the tape should not be the same as a radial .
I don't think it matters where the sails are made, it is important that wherever sails are made, they are made correctly.
The Sail Innovation sails are well made and last as well or better than any other top level sail.
The problem with the class now is the influence of some people trying to stop new people entering the market.
They are only doing it because they are scared!