Hobie 16: Panam Games 2011
I had in queue a post on this as I received info yesterday from our Hobie 16 team on a good performance at Guatemala and a solid regatta at Cancun last week.
The brothers Lucas and Moira Gonzalez Smith were 2nd in both, racing against the top continental crews from Guatemala, Venezuela and Mexico.
Lucas was one of the first monohull sailors to approach us to sail the F18 when we were already sailing the first boats and helped to gather the initial Racecat fleet to race at the Yatch Club Argentino to expose the class to the huge monohull sailing community.
Now he is training full time for next Panamericans in the H16. The US team is also expected to perform with Greg Thomas and John Williams as the selected team.
We didn´t have a formal selection here in Argentina as a Tornado/F18 sailor wanted to classify too. But that’s another story.
Right now Lucas and Moira are proving themselves against the best of the continent with excellent results, hope they can get a medal for Argentina in next Panan Games at Mexico.
Weekend Results at Guatemala:
| 1 110146 Juan Ignacio Maegli & Cristina Guirola |
| 2 112129 Lucas González & Moira González |
| 3 111869 Jason Hess & Guillermo Sánchez |
| 4 110112 Juan Maegli & Erickson Pérez |
| 5 111943 Xavier Castillo & Jacky Hess |
| 6 110103 José Daniel Hernández & José Eduardo Canizalez |
| 7 107692 Nicolas Rogers & Diana Caballeros |
| 8 98907 Juan Lejarraga & Danilo López |
| 9 102757 José Penagos & Andrés Duque |
| 10 111687 Geoffrey Hess & Ronald Salazar |
| 11 107684 Jorge Luis Pérez & Max Pérez |
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Regarding some comments on the H16 compared to modern spi cats I can only say that I learned to sail and race in the Hobie 16 with the above fleet at Mexico and the 16 is the main reason I’m right now making a living out of catamarans.
But any other appreciation won´t change that is an outdated design.
Look at 0:52 of the AC45 video, you can´t reproduce that kind of saling on a H16.
After sailing and learning on the H16 you must, if possible, make an upgrade to discover a new way of catsailing.
In places where you can start from scratch, like we did in Argentina, you are not going to push a fleet of H16s, no matter how popular and exiting she is. (Even I tried in 2004 without success due to the lack of availability of products from HBrazil..) If I were head of the Hobie Co, I will push for their new 16 , the Tatoo, but on fiberglass to replace it.
So no one is going to tell me how good, fast and difficult to manage the H16 is, a boat that forces you to excell in boat handling like no other, that has formed the biggest fleets that I pushed hard to promote in Mexico for ie, a boat that changed the history of sailing and helped like no other to achieve what we have today.
But again, and it is an old design, an objective reality you can´t change.
So Blackburn, nothing to do with your ‘ancient’ remarks against the good old Hobie 16, if we rant against monohulls for being old fashion and ancient, we must act the same way for catsailing, pushing for innovation and a better, easier, faster range of cats for this new Era.
jajajajaj Hola soy de Rosario..y AMO mi Hobie 16, el cual navego casi todos los dias. Al igual que tu blog que lo leo todos los Dias. SIGUE asi es EXCELENT!!! 😀
GONZALO
A Hobie 16 with genaker, light crew, and fresh wind compares excellently, against a million dollar AC45 with pro crew dependent on a billionaire.
Hobie 16s success as a one-design class is a very good thing. it has suited the amount of time and money many people could devote to this sport. Of course the boat has jealous one-design rivals!
It is a cheap tactic however, when formula-boat sailors try to promote themselves by trash-talking the best established one-design catamaran.
So Martin, if you first ranted against monohulls and now want to aim at Hobie 16s, I would instead recommend that you reconsider the business of ranting.
Viva one-design! Viva formula!
Blackburn
I don't see any ranting against the Hobie 16 on this site–just some facts that there are more refined current designs. The H16 has been a successful one-design boat over the years, but it also has a number of design flaws, even for a boat designed in 1969.
In my experience with getting people into catamaran sailing, the Hobie 16 has been a major impediment, as many sailors wrongly project the H16's flaws (soft platform, pitchpoling, poor taking, difficult righting, pitching) onto all catamarans.
Since our club switched it's fleet from Hobie 16s to Nacra 500s, interest in cat sailing has jumped significantly.
I too got my multihull start on a Hobie 16, but the fact is that clinging to this poorly designed platform hurts the profile of multihull sailing in general.
Ed
Toronto
Blackburn
Maybe as I'm not a native english speaker I expresed myself in a wrong way…
When I talked about 'rant on monohulls' , and 'doing the same' in the catsailing community , it was to not doing what we critize from others, that they don´t innovate, they stuck in time ride, etc.
As Ed said, nowhere in this site you can find any rant about the H16, or any other cat for that matter.
Just maybe some vent over the Olympics and AC naysayers!
On the opposite you can only find here good vibes and promotion for any cat class, design or brand.
Just search the +1000 posts and you'll find out that for yourself.
Without the Hobie 16 catamaran sailing is an obscure hobby practiced by almost no one. Sure it's an old design but it fills a niche that exists for good racing on affordable boats. Other classes fill other niches. There is diversity across catamaran sailing classes and that's a good thing.
….""So no one is going to tell me how good, fast and difficult to manage the H16 is, a boat that forces you to excell in boat handling like no other, that has formed the biggest fleets that I pushed hard to promote in Mexico for ie,
a boat that changed the history of sailing and helped like no other to achieve what we have today.""……
Well, my 'rant' above seems to agree with you.
Hi Martin,
I do agree 100% with your point of view.
3 points:
-the interest for youth and beginners beyond the "sensibility" of the shape is the level of the fleet, especially in Euro Championship.
-in France, till 2005 there's HC16 an SL16 for the same youth. 5 years later, in 2010 they were 69 SL16 sailors and 248 HC16 people (mna's figure). Most of the good youth have been sailing both (in order to prepare ISAF world). 99% of them said: "HC16 is fun". HC16 legend ? May be, but youth still like banana hull.
-technically, during national youth meeting, the ENV (national french sailing school), GPS trackers show that good tack with HC16 is not much more expensive in upwind loss than other support without dagger board. It was a surprise, first for me.
I know you usually do not rant, Martin – despite your injunction [we MUST begin to act…] that everyone should begin to do so!
Innovation has to be limited in a strict one design class; it is less important there, than affordability, number and distribution of boats, and good organization. Hobie 16 is still first rate in all those respects. No easy thing to replace… Really! It may never be equalled by another one-design.
This website focusses almost entirely on recent design and equipment, now more than ever we see semi-professionalism or full professionalism getting all the attention. I've enjoyed a lot of formula racing, but it was much more expensive and time-consuming than my no-hassles, race-ready Hobie 16.
One-design racing, especially Hobie-style, will hopefully continue to attract many new sailors, people who like the idea of swapping boats at the Worlds.
And the formula/development/techie perfectionists will forever find fault with it. : )
Blackburn
Cut it out with the "we must rant" thing, clearly explained to you in comments above. Do you read what I post? or you just see the word H16 and you crazy against formulas?
Here you have it again as it seems you only read what you want:
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Maybe as I'm not a native english speaker I expresed myself in a wrong way…
When I talked about 'rant on monohulls' , and 'doing the same' in the catsailing community , it was to not doing what we critize from others, that they don´t innovate, they stuck in time ride, etc.
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Ends on the rant argument. Next subject please.
For some special reasons we started here directly with the F18.
What do you think I'm doing now?
I will push for a RC 16 OD class for the begginers and people with less budget.
To continue catsailing promotion of course we need a feeder class that for sure will become the most popular and fun.
Now two options to achieve this goal:
1) Hobie, SL or Nacra makes a promotional move and sells entry level boats to a good import rate and we can do the same we did with the F18
2) I have to build the OD class myself, literally.
Now off to the real world of building cats. You are invited to laminate half molds any time you like Blackburn!
The biggest problem with the Hobie 16 as a youth boat or a feeder class is not the performance. The biggest problem is safety. Because of the H16's heavy (and often leaky) comp tip mast, the boat is much harder to right than other cats that are capable of filling this niche. The heavy mast also makes the boat capsize more easily.
I understand the benefits of a strict one-design, but it is also nice to sail a design (one-design or formula) that takes advantage of some of the current developments that make boats easier, safer and more durable. I think the H16 has had a great run, but cats have progressed so much in the past 10 or 15 years that it's time is done. The SL16 or Nacra 500 are better alternatives as an entry-level performance cat.
I had lots of fun sailing H16s from1999 to 2006, but I don't miss them now. The F18 is easier to right, nicer to sail and cheaper to race due to durability of platform and sails. The Nacra 500s have proven to be a much better boat on which to coach new cat sailors and everyone at my community club prefers it to the H16s we used to have.
These are not "rants" against the H16. All I'm saying is that there are alternatives now available that have more to offer.
Ed
Toronto
Ed from Toronto: You will be happy to know the silly Comptip mast never was adopted in Europe, where much of the Hobie16 action still is [my neighborhood] – Only in North America did the damned trial lawyers sink the recruits?
Martin, lighten up! Your last post was ~almost~ a rant about ranting… 😛
I am Blackburn and I approve the previous message…
[that is a US election joke]
Its Ok, I alreayd lighten up. The thing is I'm having lots of work at the boatyard and my back is hurting! 'Broke' it due to a fix I need to do over a tercerized work…
I needed some vent.
You should check our main political forum here in Arg, at the main newspaper, I'm on fire… this millonaire 'leftists' and millonaire Union leaders (greatest oxymoron of them all, both).. well, I better lighten up again!